Behind The Scenes: April Edwards And Bobby Warren

April Edwards 00:01 Welcome back to We Love Deck Builders, the podcast where decking professionals come to sharpen their skills and grow their business. I’m your host April Edwards, CEO and growth strategist at Deck Builder Marketers dedicated to helping you craft the business you deserve. We have a really special guest today. I’m super excited about today’s episode. Bobby Warren is with us. He’s actually one of our team members here at Deck Builder Marketers, and the creative genius that he is came up with the idea for this episode, which I thought was pretty cool. So we’re gonna do things a little bit differently today. And, and he’s going to interview me. So let’s see how it goes. So a little bit about Bobby. He is a rock star at the team here. Everybody loves Bobby, when we talk about modeling. One of our employees, it’s Bobby if we can clone him for everybody. We will, he’s, seriously, we love working with him. Bobby’s been, he freelanced with us for quite a while and then we brought him on board full time this year. He’s also from, you know, a rural area in Ohio. Very close to where I grew up. And anyway, so Bobby, welcome to the podcast. We’d love just to hear a little bit about you before you interview us.

Bobby Warren 02:07 Alright, so the reason why I wanted to hijack your podcast is when you did your first episode. I was so moved by your personal story. Right? It was just fascinating. And then it’s like you almost give like a free masterclass in digital marketing the deck builders. So it was just like you poured out your heart. And you’re so client focused that you delivered so much information that I like. And you know, in my former life, I was an award winning journalist, right? Print journalist. And so I you know, I interviewed people, business leaders, community leaders, you know, high ranking officials, Congressmen, Senators, like that is like, Man, I want to interview you. And so I appreciate you letting me do that. I grew up outside Boston, go patriots. And so I grew up outside Boston lived in Florida. I went to school at Cincinnati Christian University, where I met my wife, Wendi, Wendi with an I and–

April Edwards 03:26 He speak so highly of you guys. I mean, seriously, they’re the cutest How long have you guys been together?

Bobby Warren 03:34 Oh, I think 29 years. We got we got like, we got probably engaged within five weeks of our first date, and within five months, within five months, we were married, our next fight will be our first fight. We just, we don’t agree on everything. But we agree on so much. And we just talk everything out and you know, but she’s absolutely the perfect one for me. And I just I love her and I’m glad we’re together. So anyway, we live in Wooster, Ohio, Northeast Ohio, we were never able to have children. So we have a dog and three cats and loving life. And as I’ve told you, you vote like every time you induct builder, marketers came into my life. It’s always been a blessing. So anyway, with the story that you shared, I really wanted to hijack your podcast and interview you. So people can kind of get to know a little bit more about you and like it’s like I have like, I’m just so impressed how client focused you are that little bit is I want to just peel back. The curtain let people see behind the scenes a little bit. And like, anyway, let’s start low. Enough about me. So, um so I know you came from like rural Ohio, right, in Northeast Ohio. And somehow you end up like, in the greater San Diego area, running this digital marketing agency that is, you know, you’ve got clients nationwide. So how did you go from, like, small town, Ohio, to this digital marketing agency in the San Diego area?

April Edwards 05:44 Yeah. How can I keep this short? Well, I went to move to the big city for college, you know, Cleveland Institute of Art, and I wanted to be a starving artist. And then I quickly realized that I needed to actually make money for myself. And so I went into commercial art, I got some jobs there, but soon realized that I just wanted to be in sunshine. And so basically, we moved out to California, after visiting and falling in love with it, my husband proposed to me out here, and we had a destination wedding here, and, and came out here. So I mean, that’s why we’re here. As far as the journey into the agency, I, we moved out here during a down economy, and I worked at a lot of different creative and marketing agencies as a freelancer. And because nobody wanted to hire full time, but they still needed to get the work done. So I got to explore what how other people did things. And you know, I think it’s the same story that a lot of Deck Builders might have too where you, you know, you can do like, you feel that you have a passion, feeling that you can do it better. And besides being a freelancer, there wasn’t any more security, you know, doing it that way versus running my own show. So I ran a generalist marketing agency is what I call it, like the general contractor of, you know, marketing, and since 2012, and just really wanted to hone in on my craft and make a bigger impact and focus in on what I enjoy doing the most, I just talked to a prospect today, same story. And I think it’s, it’s so interesting how similar our stories are the, with the deck builders that I’ve talked to, and even our businesses, even though it’s like totally different, and it’s, you know, it’s kind of having a passion for what you’re doing. And, you know, just wanting, like I said, wanting to hone your craft, what we do is we build digital experiences, you know, and our clients build physical experiences.

Bobby Warren 08:03 And so, like, you talked a little bit about, you know, moving out there at a down economy working as a freelancer, you know, there’s good and bad with that. Like, what were some of the, like, challenges that you’ve faced, like, when you were kind of starting your agency? And, you know, how did you overcome those challenges?

April Edwards 08:27 Yeah, it’s so interesting, because I just spoke with a deck builder today. And, you know, like, we put during our strategy calls, they’re, they’re free guys, like, get a free strategy call with me. We, we sit there and we go over their numbers, like, Where, where are they at now? And where do they want to be in a year. And that’s great, you know, but sometimes it’s not always about making a ton of money. It’s you know, about having a better life for yourself, or, you know, your family or whatever. The challenge for me was the goal that I set for this fella that I talked to today, we want to help make his business more streamline and get better quality leads in the door and use automation and stuff like that in order to save him time so that he could spend more time with his 18 month or 18 month old. And I think that big challenges that we all face are when you have a life change like that and having to pivot and how you do things. I mean, when I had kids, everything changed. And, you know, I no longer could work on the weekends and work 80 hours a week, you know, my priorities were totally different. So having to, you know, going from kind of taking work here and there to needing more security and stuff was just the challenge, trying to basically re-invent myself, you know, and I would say, you know, fast forwarding to today, just talking in general terms, I think it’s always difficult to let go of the vine. All of us business owners struggle with that. And I try so hard, and I’m always asking for my team to be patient with me, because it’s, your business is your baby, you’ve invested, you know, blood, sweat, and tears. And there comes a point where, like, just because you know, somebody doesn’t do it the way you do, it doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. And I think that, you know, we have to, we have to realize that, you know, and, anyway, so much more to say on that, but just a couple of pointers.

Bobby Warren 10:43 So, you know, you’re talking about having to reinvent yourself, you know, I, I have found that, you know, I make, like a better right hand man than a leader, right? I think I’m really good in a support role. Right, I thrive in that. Now, you talked about having to re-invent yourself. So you kind of went from a freelancer. And so now, and you talked about some of the challenges of being a business owner. So like, you’ve become like, you know, this woman in his leadership role, and have you encountered like, like, any obstacles or anything in that career journey, that career trajectory?

April Edwards 11:34 Of course, and, you know, I think that we all have different phases in either our career or our business. And, you know, I went from freelancing to running my own show and having, you know, just a couple of freelancers here, and they’re like developers, and, you know, some other things, but for the most part, you know, I was selling the job, I was managing the job, I was in charge of all the strategy, I had a very tight relationship with the client, I was in control, like I was leading the reins, and things were good. But when I decided that I wanted to have a business that wasn’t dependent on my personal availability, then you need team members. And it’s very difficult, again, to let go of the reins, and trust and you know, know that, like, they’re not going to do it as good as you because they never will, I mean, you have to have the expectation that if you hire somebody, they’re going to do 80% of what you would do, it’s just how it goes. But I would say that is such a big challenge. And the way that, you know, we’re continuously overcoming that is by having really good training, and processes, and one on one meetings and connections with our team and being extremely clear, and what our, you know, our values and mission and approach and stuff like that is so that, you know, we’re a connected unit, so I can let go. And anyway, I’m just I’m so proud of my team. It’s, it’s been really rewarding, it’s been difficult to get to this point. But now it’s really rewarding, I really look forward to connecting with my team and, you know, sharing ideas and collaborating.

Bobby Warren 13:18 You know, kind of one of the interesting things is that your team is 100% remote. And just the way the meetings are layered, like, and you know, how we have, you know, our Slack channel and stuff, like we’re connecting all day long. And, like, it doesn’t feel like I’m out here on an island, you know, I got a great support team. And so, like you’ve, I mean, you’ve done a good job of, you know, kind of creating that culture. And, you know, I think with your leadership style, it kind of lends lends itself to the kind of the business model that, you know, you’re following but like, what’s your leadership philosophy and, and style when it comes to those of us on your team.

April Edwards 14:13 Um, coaching, you know, just to be a coach. I think, you know, people in trust me, this was a journey to get to this point, but when you are telling people how to do things all the time, and you’re making decisions for them, they don’t grow. They, they also feel apprehensive to come to the table with new ideas and I’m telling you what, being in the marketing industry, we’re not in a position to run a business in that way. And if you are trying to micromanage and and you know, tell everybody what to do and those types of things you’re you’re going to be behind because I can no longer keep my pulse on every algorithm change that happens. And, you know, new tool that comes out and all of these things. So, I mean, my approach it with leadership is definitely coaching. Like, I want to have an open conversation with my team about, you know, what is, what’s important. One second. All right, so what I was trying to say is that, you know, I just, I want to be able to be resourceful. I mean, really, like, I want to give, you know, some direction, if needed, and ask the right questions, so that my team can, you know, figure it out, and then obviously, provide them all the resources that I can, and training what they need.

Bobby Warren 15:53 Yeah, cuz like, as we were talking earlier, you know, you are the owner of Deck Builder Marketers, right? And, but it doesn’t feel like, like, you’re the owner, right? It feels like you’re one of the team, that you’re down there in the trenches with us. One of the things that, you know, I’ve really been impressed with, and what I appreciate, is this idea of leaning on your team. Because like, you know, you’ll ask the team, hey, you know, what’s happening with the latest changes in SEO? Hey, you know, what are we doing in web development? What do you think about this? And, like, you, like you are a visionary, right? Like, there are times when you’re going like 120 miles an hour, we’re getting a lot of questions and like, hey, what about this? What about this? Have you considered this? Have you researched that? And, and, you know, that’s good. But it’s like, you’re a visionary, but you’re also very practical, and, you know, this idea of leaning on your team, not micromanaging them? You know, to me, it makes for a wonderful work environment.

April Edwards 17:15 Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I just like one of our core values is better together. And it’s so important. I mean, guys, what we do, people think that my, I speculate that a lot of people think that marketing is easy, because there’s so many DIYs out there. And yes, like, you can watch some YouTube videos and probably get to a certain point, but I’m telling you, you’re gonna end up wasting a lot of time, you’re going to screw up a lot, a lot along the way, you’re going to waste some a lot of money, and you’re, you’re not going to get the results that you want. And it’s like, it’s one of those things like, you know, do you do you think I can build a deck, maybe it probably would take me a year to do and I do it all wrong. But the point is better together, because we all have something unique to bring to the table. And we can produce so much better work, when we all collaborate, and always push ourselves forward to be innovative, and, you know, just always do our best.

Bobby Warren 18:21 I know, it’s like talking about better together. Like, you know, McKenzie, you know, project manager who, you know, she supervises me. And she doesn’t have the training, I have an SEO, she doesn’t have the training and writing, I have an SEO. And like when she’s when she’s evaluating my work, you know, to make sure that it’s up to the company standards. She’ll say, like, Hey, Bobby, you know, I think this is kind of missing. I think we should explain it this way. She’ll say, I’m not an SEO expert, but don’t you think? And let me tell you, her instincts are always dead on right. She hits the nail on the head, bringing it back to carpentry and deck building. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. And her feedback always makes things better. And, you know, it’s just, I think it goes to your leadership and that you trust your team to do what they’re supposed to do. Yeah. And along those lines, I was wondering like, is, is there like an example like, when you’ve really you’ve relied on your team’s input, and it really had an impact on like, an important business decision of yours.

April Edwards 19:50 I mean, I’m going to talk kind of generally here. I am a visionary and I have a million ideas and I think they say that, you know, like, you know, as a visionary, you’ll probably have 100 ideas, but two of them will be so amazing. And that’s what really separates us. With that said, I, you know, I’m also I’m not, like, I’m not clinically ADD, but I’m kinda. So I’m just like, I’m going, I’m going, I’m going, I got a million ideas like I’m super passionate about I want all these things to happen. But, but if I’m left to do it now, like before, I don’t think I don’t know, I was different. When I first started out, I think I was, I guess it’s I didn’t think big. And that’s the difference, you know. So the team is able to break things down into something that can actually get completed. That’s, that’s very general. I mean, I couldn’t I couldn’t do this on my own anymore. I’ve got way too many ideas that are flooding through my brain that I have to get out. And I don’t know, I guess a recent recent, I’m so excited to, I don’t know, we, I guess I don’t want to say anything right now we’ll have like some sort of official launch, but we have a really cool campaign coming up, that is really going to benefit so many people around the world, and our Deck Builder clients, and I’m just so proud of Natalia she, she, she started working with us. She’s I’m so sorry Natalia was it December? If she’s listening to this. And so quickly, I like her and I just, you know, we just jived like, like super fluid. And anyway, so now she’s doing our marketing and, and she came up with this amazing idea, and I just cannot wait to share it with everybody. It’s gonna be pretty cool. So I guess the answer your your question, there’s, there’s a lot.

Bobby Warren 22:03 So the journalist in me wants you to break news on the podcast. But I understand I understand.

April Edwards 22:12 Well, let’s just say this, okay, because now you got me going, um, we, we were really big on gifting here. We really like to show our appreciation, and we’d like to celebrate wins, which is another core value for us. It’s, we call it woohoo. And so, you know, we always try and like give our clients props, when we see that they’re getting amazing reviews. And, you know, basically we’re going to, we’re going to start if our clients reach their sales goals, or when they reach their sales goals, we typically give them something like champagne or whatever, you know. So basically, instead of doing that, we want to donate that money to a charity of their choice. And, you know, so that way, it’s going to help a lot of people and then plus, you know, we’ll all get to celebrate that, you know, they have reached their goal, which is pretty cool. So that’s just a little bit a little bit about it.

Bobby Warren 23:13 That’s the That’s neat. Here we are breaking news. We love deck builders. Speaking of deck builders, like you know, I freelanced with you, you know, I had, you know, I was running my own business and which it focused basically focused on writing SEO based content. Right. So a lot of what I’m doing right now, I didn’t, I did not cover the, the broad spectrum of, you know, digital marketing services that you do, I just had like, one tiny little piece. But one of the things that I was always struck by whenever we were on meetings, or if we were, you know, discussing things in our Slack channel, you are so client focused. It’s, it’s like, it’s always what can we do for our clients? And it’s never like, you know, sometimes. You know, I had a client that, you know, I almost fired one time, my attorney, my attorney, and my accountant, both told me Never be afraid to fire a client, right? Like, you don’t have that attitude. You’re always like, we need to provide them a good service, we need to do well for them. What can we do? How can we get these numbers up? You know, so I was just wondering, like, can you share like your vision and your mission for Deck Builder Marketers and you know, just how that aligns with the needs of deck builders out there.

April Edwards 25:02 Um, I was just speaking with someone the other day. Well, it’ll come to me later. But I mean, the mission really is bigger than, you know, making money. And definitely now that I have a team, like, my personal mission is to take care of all you guys. Like, I think you guys are so amazing, and you deserve the best. And I want you guys to have amazing lives and be successful. But our mission is to help 500 deck builders, double the revenue in the next six years, and that’s something that we’re taking extremely seriously. And with that, you know, it’s the underlying theme is enriching potential and, or empowering potential and enriching lives. And so yeah, I mean, we do marketing, and it helps with your business and, you know, helps you get, make more money and reach your goals. But there’s also a lot of other things that means to me. And it’s very complimentary to my clients, and then the people around them, as well as my own internal team and your guys’s families. So the work that we do, I really want to, you know, help a lot of business owners that are just working a million hours, maybe, you know, maybe not making the revenue that they need, so they can take trips with their family, whatever it is, you know, I want them to be more successful, so that that trickles down on their teams. And then, of course, gives them the opportunity to build amazing outdoor experiences that draw people together. I mean, how beautiful is that? And then, of course, the more successful we are, you know, the more benefits I can provide for the team. And you know, that trickles down to your families and stuff like that as well. I was so, so proud to offer unlimited vacation this year. I just I feel so convicted all the time. Because seriously, you guys. I really have a great team. I really do. And I think that you guys deserve so much. So I just want us to keep doing good things so that other people talk about us and we can help those people. And it’s a big old circle. Because circle is love.

Bobby Warren 27:38 When you announce, when you announce that benefit, or when McKenzie announced it in our production team meeting. Like it was just so humbling, because it’s like, like, you care so much about us, right? That, you know, like, every time we talk, we talk business, but you’re always like, how’s Wendy doing and how are things going with you? So it’s this? It’s not just like, you know, you’re standing there, like, Come on, we need to get this done. Get this done. We’re already in, you know what I mean? There are times when you when deadlines, when deadlines, you know, come and you have to get stuff done. But it’s like you really I think you really take care of the whole person, you know, and not just the nine to five person who’s producing for Deck Builder Marketers.

April Edwards 28:36 Yeah. Well, we’re, it’s a people industry, you know, it’s about developing relationships. And you know, this year well, we rolled out EOS, if you’re familiar with, with that. Anyone listening, it’s the Entrepreneurial Operating System. And it just kind of helps you structure the way that you run your business. And, but we fully we want full in this year. And one of the things that’s really nice about it, because at the end of the day, it’s all psychology. One of the things that’s really nice about it is in the L10 meeting that we have, level 10 meeting, just leadership team meeting. We kick it off by and also the same page meetings, which you know, the leadership team will have with their team and then I’ll have with the leadership team and all that. At the beginning of the meeting, there’s always time reserved to do a check in and with the same page meaning I think it’s a little bit deeper. It’s like seriously, how are you feeling? Like are you stressed? Is there something bothering you? Because you got to understand what people are going through so that we can be supportive and resourceful and you know, whatever needs to happen so that we can you know, work together well, but it’s I love I just love that little change that we made where You know, somebody talks about something personal, something professional, we do like headlines and shout outs to the team or wins that our clients have had. And it just, I think it makes such a difference.

Bobby Warren 30:12 Yeah. And, you know, talking about digital marketing, right, your the deck builders that you serve and have a passion for, right? Can you share anything about like maybe a success story about how Deck Builder Marketers helped transform, you know? What, like one of your clients online presence and which lead to business results?

April Edwards 30:45 Yeah, um, well, first of all, check out the case studies on the website, Natalia is adding new ones all the time, which is really cool. But I mean, you, when you go on there, you’ll see like, you know, improvements and stats and leads and things like that. And, I mean, that’s great. But again, like, I’m more passionate about how it makes them feel and how it changes their lives. So we have one client that, you know, he was really looking forward to the different to the CRM and the automations that we have in place to help save him more time. He wanted to grow his business and eventually get out of sales. And he needed that consistency. In order to a, I’m gonna say, have the confidence, because that’s me, like, if I can, if I have the confidence, and I have the vision and the confidence, like nothing’s getting in my way. Um, so, so yeah, he, I think he, he was he reached the sales goal, I wish I knew it was I feel like it was maybe the beginning of Q3 last year, and he’s just growing, growing, growing. And another interesting story is, we we get approached with a lot of general contractors that want to get more deck projects. And so we had one that came to us. And he, you know, he didn’t want to get rid of all the services. So whenever somebody works with us, we usually reinvent their website, because it’s not built, right. And it doesn’t have professional copy, and the SEO and all of the conversion optimization techniques that you need to ensure that people give you their information. And so we kept some of these services like Basement Remodeling, and roofing and then the decks. But we put more of an emphasis on the decks, the deck, you know, outdoor living space projects. So we optimize, this is like such a good case study, I feel like I shouldn’t even say it, because it’s kind of an anomaly. But um, he, we optimize, one of the first things that we always do is optimize a Google Business Listing, because you should be getting the bulk of your leads from that puppy. I mean, it’s at the top of the page when somebody does a search on Google. And we optimized his listing. And within a month, he was ranking number one for deck builder, which is amazing, because, you know, that like that was super quick. So I really need to look back and see how long I mean, it felt like it was only it felt like it was only a month after we launched the website that he’s like, you know, what, let’s take these other services off and just focus on decks. So that was a, that was a pretty cool case study, too.

Bobby Warren 33:26 You know, you talked about, like, a lot of times, you know, I think people who approach you want to grow their business, right? So, so they might not have, you know, the best website, maybe they invested a years ago, and the technologies advanced and things like that. And it reminded me like earlier, when you were talking about, like DIY, you know, do you really want to build your own deck. And it got me thinking about what all the changes, you know, that’s going on with Google, and what kind of information they’re looking for, you know, who they want to promote? You know, it’s kind of like, you just can’t, like, I don’t think you can just throw up content on a website anymore. You really need that professional help. You know, and it’s like, I know, you’re the type of person where it’s like, if you’re not, if you’re not using Deck Builder Marketers, you need to use somebody or use somebody good, because that’s that client focus that you have, you just want the best result for that person. So it’s like, you know, I wouldn’t be DIY in this stuff, this digital marketing anymore. You know, like, given all the updates that have happened with Google. And you know, you’ve seen the headlines, you’ve seen the Charts, where websites are just taking like that. They may have had like all these, you know, visitors and then all of a sudden those numbers drop. And you know, when I’ve checked in on like Google Search Console and things like that, we’re not, we’re not seeing those kind of drastic changes, those drastic hits from Google algorithm updates. So like, how do you stay ahead of the curve? And all this with all these digital marketing trends and best practices and all that? Like, how, how do you stay up on all of this?

April Edwards 35:33 Yeah, well, I rely on my team to stay up on things that are in their area that we do. I do feel that, you know, if you want to be successful, get a coach, you know, get some sort of support, you need to surround yourself with people that, you know, you can really look up to. And I’ve been a part of a group called the Seven Figure Agency for a few years, and it’s just invaluable to me, to continuously hear what the latest and greatest is and what other agency owners are doing and how we’re all approaching things. I was on my own before, and yeah, you can Google things, but look, like the shortcut is, you know, in hearing from somebody else who’s already been there and done that, you know, and tested things out. So. So that’s, you know, that’s really important. As far as you know, your comment about our sites not being affected when there’s an algorithm update. The thing is, is I mean, I’m gonna oversimplify this, and everyone’s probably gonna be like, Yeah, I can do it. But, I mean, honestly, I think yeah, I think that simplifying things is hard sometimes. But Google, I mean, back in the day, you would stuff a page with a bunch of keywords, you would just say, duck builder a million times, and Google would put you in front of, you know, the youth, the searcher versus someone else. And slowly over the years, like, it was frustrating as a marketer, when some of these major algorithm updates came up, and you’re just like, really, you just like, as soon as you figure it out, it all changes. And now we gotta, like, you know, re-approach everything and that, but then after a while, I actually have grown to have a lot of respect for Google, because really, what they’re doing is they’re trying to make sure that, you know, people, websites, and businesses are being authentic and genuine. And so that’s really the approach that we take. Even with AI right now, everybody, you know, I’m sure a lot of people went and just like, built a bunch of copy with AI. Google’s smart enough, and they’ve made a lot of changes since AIs come out to identify when something is generated with AI. And so to answer your question, the way that we get past that stuff, is we’re real. And we try and put real stuff up, meaning like, we get to understand our clients intimately. And we’re pulling out that secret sauce and how they do things different. And, you know, putting real people on the site and telling real stories, along with really helpful information, too. So at the end of the day, I, I mean, I would argue to say, if you’re a successful salesman, you, you’re, you’re just being really helpful, you know, and so we do that with all of the marketing that we put out as well. And in return, we get favor from Google and our clients get more traffic and leads in the door.

Bobby Warren 38:39 Yeah. And, like Have, have there been any innovative strategies that you’ve kind of implemented and implemented.

April Edwards 38:49 Um, I mean, when you say innovative, I feel like I want to piggyback on what I just said, in terms of, you know, just because there’s a new shiny tool and objects out there. Like it’s, it’s good to test it out and see how it can help you. But like, don’t put all your eggs in one basket, and don’t rely on that one thing. Make sure that you know, you have a good mix and that you are being real and not trying to shortcut the process. And, you know, try and find some silver bullet because it doesn’t exist. If you’re going to be successful with your business and you know, your brand and your market. That’s what you need to focus on. What is your brand? And how are you building it? How are you getting it in front of people, it’s so important. So I’m just going to say innovative, stick with the basics and be genuine, don’t and don’t use shiny tools to shortcut things.

Bobby Warren 39:48 So a mutual friend of ours, Claudia taught me. Search Engine Optimization back in 2016. Back then she had a course. And those foundational lessons that I learned in 2016 are still working today. And it’s like I don’t know if I’m just naive. But it’s like, I’ve never worried about these Google updates and these algorithm changes, because the focus has been the same, like you said, keeping it real, you know, addressing, addressing, you know, searchers needs their intense, you know, answering their question solving their problems. And it’s like, well, so like, but given the update, like, with everything that’s happening in digital marketing, like how do you see the role of digital marketing evolving for, like, I don’t know if it’s niche or niche friend of mine says there’s riches and niches, like these niche niche or niche industries, like deck building, like, how do you see the role of Deck Builder for digital marketing helping these industries?

April Edwards 41:19 Well, I go to the trade shows and and, you know, the the NADRA Summit. And I mean, a big thing is technology in this space in general. I mean, it’s not about having a wood pergola anymore, it’s about having a motorized pergola that you can control by your phone, or that is, will open and close automatically, when based off of the weather, you know, I mean, and so I guess I just want to say, if you guys can grasp on to the technology that you’re testing out with your, with your, your deck projects, you got to understand that like, if you’re not already in, like working on your online presence in using digital marketing, you’re just gonna, you’re you might be doing well now. But you’re, you better believe your competition is going to surpass you eventually. I mean, we’re all like, technology has always been advancements. And I mean, I feel that I mean, Mike and Andy even have an article in the deck specialist magazine that talks about, you know, different technology that they’re testing and using and things like that. So, you know, I look at digital marketing is technology, and it’s something that you, you just, it’s you got to use it. And you got to be consistent with it too.

Bobby Warren 42:39 Yeah. consistent, very important. You know, one of the things that I remember from my days in print journalism, was kind of this notion that, you know, if you don’t advertise with us now, you’ll be advertising with us for your businesses closing sale, right. And it’s kinda like, you know, when you talk about this consistency in this presence, I think it just needs to be there. Right. It’s this idea of keeping top of mind.

April Edwards 43:16 Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I’ve been getting a lot of questions lately, like, Okay, well, what, you know, what, how many leads and like, what size is, you know, some of your clients, businesses that are in one, because we have three different programs based on where you are in your business? And, you know, and then like, I’ll, I always want to know, what you’ve been doing with their marketing. And the question came up with direct mailers? Well, I mean, they told me they were doing direct mailers. And of course, I went on a rant about the difference between more traditional marketing versus digital marketing. And, you know, with the direct mailer, it was, you know, not a good return. Like, it’s something that you do when you have reached a certain point, and you’ve used up all of the other channels and strategies, then you do that, because you really want to dominate the market. So really, what I wanted to say is, it’s the idea of like, kind of old school, like old school, Yellow Pages, and billboards, and print ads, like you can have your, you know, you can have your brand in those places, but really, in a lot of ways, what you’re doing is you’re protecting yourself from your competitor being there, it’s not it’s not, like it’s, it’s adding to the touchpoints that you are having with your prospects so that there’s you know, they’re seeing your brand show up more but, you know, being really smart with digital marketing, you can actually see the return on your investment. Anyway, that was The loaded one. Sorry, I hope I answered it.

Bobby Warren 45:03 Well, when you said direct mailers, it reminded me of something we experienced, like, so I live in Ohio, right. It’s a swing state. So there’s a lot of emphasis here. Like during presidential elections, and, and so and then also with Congress and the, you know, the House of Representatives in the Senate. So, you know, we would get, you know, direct mailers, like, just tons of them every single day. And so, in my area, we’re so turned off with direct mailers that, like, we don’t even look at them anymore, we just toss them. You know, it’s almost like, you know, getting those free, you know, people would put out these free shoppers, you know, half, half the people don’t even bring them in the house, you know, and stuff like that. So. So you got to be smart, you know, where you want to place that investment? I think but, yeah.

April Edwards 46:09 I mean, it’s not that they don’t work, they, they definitely contribute to the larger picture. But, um, but yeah, I think that you can definitely, I don’t think I know, you can prove your return on investment a lot better with digital marketing. And we, I mean, we, we have a CRM called sales jumpstart that we’ve customized for our deck builders, it’s got a lot of templates and automations, and messages in there with text and email that are, you know, already built in that we customized for each one of our clients. But what’s really nice about that tool is that we can not only see what our lead sources are, but we can tie the actual lead source to the closed deal amount. So that way, we can see what lead sources are actually generating the most revenue. And then we even look at it like with average project price, you know, are you getting more valuable projects from like Google Ads versus, you know, something else? So pretty helpful.

Bobby Warren 47:09 Yeah. Because like, when it’s digital, you kind of know where that source is coming from? Where if it’s, you know, the traditional then maybe it came from a billboard, maybe it came from a direct mailer. You No. All right. So.

April Edwards 47:28 yeah, I’m sorry, I want to follow up on that, because I do have kind of an example. We have a client that they they want to reduce, they wanted to reduce their spend, but you know, I was like, well, then we got to reduce your goal. Like we can’t generate, like, we can’t shoot for the same revenue goal if you want to reduce your spend. And so my, you know, my strategy, like they said that they would, you know, increase it by x amount. And I’m like, okay, like, I talked to my strategist, I’m like, what, how much, you know, based off of their, their close rate and their average project price, and that amount with how much you know, you how many leads, on average, you get with that amount, based off of the cost per lead average cost per lead, like how much more revenue is that little amount gonna give them? And for me, like, people get so scared to spend money, but if you put $1 in and you get $20 out, why, why would you do that? So a lot of what we do is really, like, put infrastructure in place, and then consult with our clients in a way where they can more confidently make those decisions. And I think that’s what is so powerful about digital marketing and working with an agency like us to pitch you, you guys. But.

Bobby Warren 48:50 No, no, don’t go to deckbuildermarketers.com. So, so that reminds me when you’re talking about like, you want to reduce a spin, like, Okay, we’re gonna reduce your goals. You, you’ll recall, a few years ago, somebody approached me, right, I’m not going to talk about the industry, you know, it was a different industry than deck builders. But they approached me and said, hey, you know, we really want to grow our business. And I knew that I did not have the skill set, and I did not have the range of services needed. So I said, Hey, look, you know, I work with April Edwards. She’s an incredible Digital Marketer. And I think she can help get you where you want to go. So you know, we had our meetings and stuff like that. And you said, you know, hey, if you go if you want to reach this $3 million goal, then you, this is what you have to spend every month. So they ended up not going with you. And I don’t know what they did. But that division of their company is no longer in business. They sold it, it got sold again. Right? So it changed hands twice. Because, like, for whatever reason, they weren’t willing to make the investment. And now, now that divisions gone from their company and sold twice over, so–

April Edwards 50:28 And it takes, I mean, it’s so important, though, because it takes mindset. I mean, it’s just, it’s like, do you, I mean, I’m challenged, you know, I’m challenged, because we, we also have a lot of people that come to us that had a really shitty experience with the different agency. And so they have baggage, you know, and so we have to work even harder to prove that, no, like, not all agencies are like that, you know, we, we do things differently. And, and I feel for them, you know, so there’s that, but also just the mindset of, you know, making that investment and knowing that you’re, you know, knowing that there is going to be intangible and tangible return in it. So, I recommend that, you know, if you’re not working with an agency, or if you’re not doing digital marketing, and you’re not investing, you should always have one paid source of marketing. I believe in that, because it helps keep things consistent. But you should also always be working to make sure that you’re ranking number one on Google. But what was I gonna say.

Bobby Warren 51:38 So like, along those lines, maybe this will feed into it. Like, like, what’s, what’s kind of one piece of advice, you would give business owners looking to improve their digital marketing efforts?

April Edwards 51:54 Hmm. Um, I mean, everybody understands the importance of a solid foundation. So you gotta get your website, right. And it’s not a build it and they will come situation. And that’s how I ended up in the marketing space, I used to, I used to build emoticons for MSN Messenger and do animation. And then I ended up doing branding, and, and then websites, and the websites just, it kind of became, it’d be like, if you built a deck for somebody, and then they never used it, you’re like, but I put all that work into it, and no one’s even enjoying it. And that’s what the websites were like. And that’s when I was like, this isn’t gonna work. Like, I don’t feel I don’t feel good about this, I don’t feel that they invested this money, and it’s not doing anything for them. So that’s when I really went into marketing, because I, you know, I want to feel like I’m making a difference and an impact. And just a website alone doesn’t do it. But I will say it is the foundation to anything that you do. And if you don’t get the website, right, your everything else is going to be slow rolling, if at all. So definitely make sure that you have a good website with really great content on it and say where you’re from, I mean, I have people that come to me, and I’m like, I gotta look up their area code, you know, to figure out where they’re from. And, I mean, that’s fine. But I mean, if, you know, if you want to be a little bit better at explaining to Google, where where you are, so they can match you up with the people that are searching for you in that area, you need to say, where are you from? What areas you serve.

Bobby Warren 53:33 When you said the website is the foundation, it reminded me of something. I think social media is an important piece, you know, in your online presence, right. However, like, what people don’t realize, is, you don’t own that you’re leasing that you don’t own social media. We had where I live, right. We had a county prosecutor who had a lot of faith in like his, his lead prosecutor that when that lead prosecutor wanted to become judge, he sent out this law he sent out these Facebook messages to like everybody, all his friends, right? And because he did that, he got locked out. He got locked out of Facebook. He couldn’t even administer his prosecuting attorney’s office Facebook page. And so there’s a lot of things happening with social media that you can get kicked out or getting Facebook Jail for putting a funny meme that they misinterpret, right? You don’t own that stuff. So your website has to be like you said the foundation of what you do.

April Edwards 55:00 Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. And don’t get me going on social media. We’ll have another episode on that.

Bobby Warren 55:09 Wait, wait, ‘til I’m gone? Wait ‘til I’m off this podcast. I’m sticking around.

April Edwards 55:16 I’m calling April social media rant episode.

Bobby Warren 55:20 Yeah, I got a love-hate relationship with social media. So we’ve kind of covered a lot of territory. And I want to get back to kind of a little more personal stuff, if you don’t mind. Like this little this is a little bit personal in the sense that, you know, how do you balance being this kind of visionary leader, while still manage while still managing the like the day to day operations of the business?

April Edwards 55:54 My team does. I mean, I still have a pulse on everything. And I think we set things up in a way that makes that easy for me. And I step in, you know, and I’m sure I’m annoying to the team sometimes, but, you know, I step in and provide suggestions and things like that, too. But, yeah, I mean, I’ve just, I have an amazing support team, so that I can really focus on the things that I enjoy, and that I’m good at. And that only I can do just like, you know, only you can write fabulous copy, you know, and yeah, I mean, oh my god, McKenzie has like, she’s just, she’s so organized. You know, like, nobody can be nobody could be McKenzie.

Bobby Warren 56:39 Like, she is amazing. Amazing.

April Edwards 56:41 Yeah. So we all we all have our contributions. And that’s what and I honestly, at this stage in the game, um, I’m continuously like, okay, what can I delegate, and more? So like, what can I make somebody else accountable for? I think that’s a really important word too, because we ran into this as a company, where we, we didn’t really have clear accountability. And there were too many cooks in the kitchen. And nobody really knew who was supposed to make the call. And it was a bit messy and inefficient. And so you know, having an accountability chart versus an Org Chart, is really important. So if if I have a discussion with somebody, and we make a decision that that person is going to be accountable for that particular thing, then that takes so much weight off of me, you know, because I’m, I am already too accountable for too many other things, you know, making sure my team is good, making sure my clients are happy, making sure that we’re providing a good service, making sure we’re getting enough leads and sales to be able to support this whole infrastructure, you know, and then building relationships, you know, I’m trying to make it a requirement that our deck builders introduce me to their, you know, their manufacturer reps, so that, you know, we can have conversations about how we could work together. And it a lot of them, depending on the sales that the deck builder has, they’ll front cash for marketing, they’ll, they’ll do a brand video for them, like a co-branded video. And, you know, that’s where I need to be.

Bobby Warren 58:25 So to hear you say that, you know, in the area where I live, a friend of mine, his Construction Company, was just named Business of the Year by our local chamber. And when I was talking to him, I said, What’s up, like, what’s up with your company? I said, Every time I see an ad, I see your billboard. I see your social media, you always have, you know, Butler building systems. He says, Every time I include them, they pay half the cost. Yeah. And so those partnerships, like those partnerships are kind of like a value added thing that you can offer, you know, to help reduce, reduce their out of pocket spend while generating greater returns. Alright, so get a little bit more personal, like how do you balance how do you balance running? This you know, what I see as a successful business with kinda like your personal life and your faith commitment? I saw, I saw a video of you and your husband giving a testimony at church. That was just amazing. really touched my heart.

April Edwards 59:40 Yeah. Um, I mean, you you have to plan things out, you know, and you just you have to be very intentional with your time for sure. Churches definitely become very, it’s it’s very important for us as a family and I get to watch the babies at Church too. So I volunteer and watch the babies. But yeah, I mean, we, my husband, and I love to do a lot. And we definitely don’t have enough time to do all of the things that we love to do. Dirt bike riding, surfing, scuba diving, I mean, camping, traveling all these things. One thing that is really important, though, is that we have a few trips a year with the kids, I mean, my goal is to show them the world, you know, I want them to know that, you know, this isn’t just how it is, it’s different everywhere else, and you can make the life that you want, you know, and you can be the person you want to be. And I think that it’s so important to have those new experiences. So we go on, we go on trips, you know, a few times a year. And, you know, sometimes I do have to work, like we’re going to do a three week road trip in a couple of weeks. And we ended up getting a star link so that we can work while we’re on the trip. And you know, there’s going to be certain days that are blocked off that are just focused on the family and the vacation, and then there’s going to be other times where you know, we’re going to have to work, and the kids are going to have to figure it out. But I don’t know, I I’m gonna go on a tangent with that a little bit. Because it’s difficult. You know, my, my kids, they, they see how much I work. But they also see how much I work because I work from home now. So, and I, you know, I manage my own schedule. So that means like, I get up at five, I get going right away. It’s so weird like that, like I’m on as soon as I wake up. And then I go to the gym, and, you know, and and then I work and if I need to put in extra hours, I put in extra hours, but I’m okay with that. Because, you know, we have a trip planned or whatever. And anyway, they you know, they feel like I work too much and all of this stuff. And but but they don’t understand the big picture. And I just I hope that they grow up to learn that. You know, you can you can build your own life and in you know, just make your own rules. But it does take work and commitment, you know, and I hope that they are seeing that for me, I hope that all of this gets reflected on them in a positive way.

Bobby Warren 1:02:27 Yeah, that that’s awesome. So is there anything that I should have asked that? I didn’t?

April Edwards 1:02:38 Know, I think that we’ve covered a lot, and we’re probably gonna split this up into two. Yeah, no, it’s been great. This was, it was really interesting to, to be the person in the seat and to look at the questions ahead of time and be like, Okay, what am I going to say? So, you know, I always like to, like, even the big thing that we a big reason why I started Deck Builder Marketers is because I wanted to be able to practice what I preach. And there’s so many agencies out there that do not do their own marketing, you know, and so they’re recommending things to their clients that they haven’t actually done themselves. And being able to niche down, made it very easy for me to do that. Because it’s about having the right message at the right time to the right person. And before it was really difficult to connect, like we do everything for everyone, you know. So, um, so anyway, now, you know, now we’re more niche down and it’s just been, it’s been a, it’s been a great journey. And anyway, I went on a rant.

Bobby Warren 1:03:46 Oh, that’s okay. But, you know, I guess hearing you say that, so now I gotta ask. So what services does the Deck Builder Marketers provide?

April Edwards 1:04:00 Yep. So we, we have a whole system it’s called the Deck Builder Marketer System, and it’s broken down into three different stages or programs. So when I get on a call with somebody, I’m, I’d like I’m kind of reverse engineering a plan for them based off of knowing you know, where they’re at now and where they want to be, and how aggressive they want to grow. And so, if you go to our website, you’ll see the deck builder marketing system and it’s, it’s a graphic that shows the system and a circle and if you look at it, clockwise, everything kind of goes in order of priority with what you need. So we, we do marketing, planning and consultation. We rebuild the website. So custom design, development, and copywriting and that’s where Bobby comes in. He probably knows how to build a deck now because he’s written so much copy for deck builders.

Bobby Warren 1:04:58 You still wouldn’t want me to build that deck.

April Edwards 1:05:03 And we do SEO. So there’s a million components to SEO on page, off page, technical, all kinds of things. But at the end of the day, it’s having really good content, which Bobby does. We do paid ads, PPC, Bing Ads, and Facebook ads, we do social media posting. And we do other things like drip email series, email campaigns, Facebook ads, and just so many things in between, we’ll do like a deck design guide, and then, you know, use that as what we call lead generation offer to get, you know, people that are in the research phase, and you’re in front of you, and then we have automated, follow up series, verse with email and text messages that help nurture the leads, and, you know, prime them for sale.

Bobby Warren 1:05:58 Okay, so I know you, I know, we’re going long, but you just keep, you keep getting me thinking about things. Because like when you talked about when someone’s in the research phase. And I think, you know, this is another reason you really don’t want to do this yourself. Because your website has to have content for people, no matter where they are in the customer journey, whether they’re in the research phase, or whether they’re, you know, moving towards you know, that, that journey where, all right, I’m ready to buy now, like, you just have to be able to reach your potential customer. And I’m talking about a deck builder, wherever they are in that customer journey when they’re in that spot.

April Edwards 1:06:50 Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think leveraging your blog is really important. I had a prospect that he, he couldn’t give the rein he couldn’t let go of the reins, or let go, you know, let go the vine. And we drive the bus, like we collaborate with our clients, like their feedback and their insight, and everything is so important to our success. But you know, we’re, our clients don’t need to tell us what to do. And in this case, you know, he, he didn’t want to let go of his blog. He wanted to write all the copy. And I’m like, I mean, really, like you would rather spend time writing a blog than serving your your team and your clients. But really, the thing is, is he was approaching it wrong. And it’s so painful for me to see because he was writing articles that cater to people that wanted to build a deck themselves. So I feel he’s wasting his time all of his content is going to attract people that are looking for how to guide, not somebody that’s like, how much does it cost to, you know, to build a deck? And like, what are design features I need to think about? And should I like, what’s this whole louvered pergola business about, you know, what’s the difference between treks and Timber Tech? Like those are, you know, those are articles that people are researching for to find more information before pulling, you know, deciding they’re going to invest $250,000 on an outdoor living space or whatnot, you know? Yeah.

Bobby Warren 1:08:21 And, you know, as things get more specialized, you know, when I’m writing content, I’m writing for two audiences. There’s the audience that, you know, the people who are looking at, you know, these outdoor living experiences, right. But I’m also writing in such a way that Google understands what I’m writing how the page is organized. And there’s internal signals in there with how it’s coded how it’s formatted, that lets Google know, that lets Google read that page, index it and understand what it’s about. And so it’s like,

April Edwards 1:09:06 That’s the nerdy stuff I always talk about. 

Bobby Warren 1:09:10 It’s like this other world that you cannot see. 

April Edwards 1:09:14 Yeah, yeah, and I think that’s probably that’s probably a big reason why some deck builders would be hesitant to move forward with professional marketing is because it’s not always tangible. And that’s difficult. I mean, they build physical things. And we don’t, and there’s a lot of things that we do behind the scenes that they don’t see. But anyway, we have regular check ins with our clients every month and kind of go over the good, the bad and the ugly, so.

Bobby Warren 1:09:45 All right. So normally, I would sign off this podcast. I’m done hijacking it. I’m gonna give it back to you. Back to you, April. All right. Live from San Diego.

April Edwards 1:10:00 Bobby, this was awesome. I really hope that people got value out of it. It was, again, really interesting to be in the sit and you are an amazing journalist, I think you did such a good job of asking questions. So we should probably do this again. And maybe, maybe I should interview you about coffee, and how you encourage things and let our audience know, the man behind the curtain that’s writing all of this content for all of our clients. I think that’d be really cool.

Bobby Warren 1:10:29 All right, not today, though.

April Edwards 1:10:33 All right. So to all of our listeners, make sure to tune in to the next episode. And oh, as always, keep moving forward. Thanks so much.